I saw an interesting posting on the Dropship Horizon Blog a few days ago. At the time I was too busy with other things to do anything on it so I just bookmarked the page and moved on. But now, here I am back again. What is it about you ask? Well it is about a theory. Can you get the wargaming public to finance your new miniature designs and through that your new company without those wargamers seeing miniatures upfront or the promise of any end result?
There are a huge number of miniature wargame companies across the world and this is a great thing as it brings diversity and great choice to thousands of customers each day. Many of these companies I do not know the names of and a large number exist only for a few months or a year and then fold for one reason or another. But in the last couple of years the way of beginning a company has changed. While I will not go into the other ways of making the process easier with free e-commerce software, low cost hosting, print on demand books, electronic publishing and so on I do want to look at Indeigogo and Kickstarter for funding miniature design work by using this as an example.
You can see the posting here and read about it but the gist is as follows. A brand new (so new they do not have a website or any presence I would find beyond this and a few other blog postings) and shiny new company called ‘Grinning Skull Miniatures’ wish to release a range called the ‘Oggum’, 15mm scale white metal miniatures of science fiction war pigs. You can see a screen grab below.
Taken on 5th August 2012
The aim of the Grinning Skull is to raise 2000USD for their range of 15mm miniatures. They have given themselves until 4th September 2012 to raise the funds.
Will they do it? I shall check back near the end of the time allotted to find out and will post a second time on this topic then. But my gut feeling is no, they will not. Will I be incorrect?
GBS
Update!
Grinning Skull now have a blog go to;
http://thegrinningskull.wordpress.com/
Have a look.
GBS
My view is perhaps a bit pessimistic on this, but as a miniatures hobbyist, I can see several things wrong with this initiative.
First of all, they are doing it wrong. Apart from some (not too convincing) concept art, they have nothing to show for the project. No prototypes, not even a single sculpt. Surely they could have gotten one single sculpt done, resin-cast it and used it as a base for prototypes. The project is meagre on art as well, and what is exactly the backstory for those “Space Pigs”?
The concept is humorous in nature, and that is something I think might not work very well in 15mm. If you compare it to Flintloque, for example, much of the charm of it is due to the fact that you can actually see the character’s expressions and features and such.
Lastly, I don’t think crowd-financing works at all for miniature projects, the idea is fundamentally flawed. When using Kickstarter to raise funding, you generally are creating something your target audience cannot otherwise get; a certain game, a certain film, a certain device. Miniature hobbyists are improvisers by nature, they will always find a way to have the games that they want in the setting that they want. People have been playing Star Trek battles using the Full Thrust ruleset and FASA miniatures (or scratchbuilt ones). If wargamers can get what they want right now (and with the wealth of different manufacturers, plus Ebay, they can), they will not pay up front and wait wether something may or may not arrive.
Hello Sam,
Thanks for your interesting comment on this posting. You make some good points and I can see the merit in all of them. Will kickstarting be acceptable for Grinning Skull, well we will know in a few weeks time.
Perhaps the instinct that has made this method so good for music will fall flat for wargamers.
GBS
I so much want it to succeed. With every bone in my body I want it to be a success, however I don’t think the wargaming community either can or want to raise such amounts for what will be a minority range/interest.
So what do we do (we as wargame figure collectors)?
In truth I think we are already spoilt for choice – The historical collector has hundreds, if not thousands of figures to choose from in a variety of different scales, then the Fantasy collector usually sticks with one rule set and therefore one manufacturer, while the SciFi collector also has huge choice.
If (and it is a big if) I was to venture my hard earned money on a new range of figures I would want a couple of things;
A track record – some history or record of fulfilling promises from the company.
A unique or original range.
Guarantees that the RANGE would be supported and not just two or three releases and then nothing.
Beautifully sculpted miniatures – something that really appeals to me and I know I really really must have – not just a fad.
Taking this back to AA (and obviously Flintloque as this is my favourite range from AA).
I know AA have history, I have already had experience of unique miniatures through the LE or even VLE ranges and a supported range. Then there is Beauty. Well to be honest I have never thought of Flintloque miniatures as beautiful, far from it, however – they do appeal to me. I think it is their comic-book look and almost cartoony sculpting style. So yes if AA were to produce a figure in this vein, then yes I would expect to pledge money.
However. Being a long-time supporter I could just as easily see this route as selling-out and as with some Flintloque collectors who have come late to the party – might even be turned off if there were LE or VLE minis.
In conclusion; Good luck to those who try it, but although I will watch it with interest, I doubt it is for me.
I hope that this helps.
Tony
Hello Tony,
Thank you for your insight and time in making your comment and thoughts known on this posting.
I do not think that I will be using this method for financing new miniature designs any time soon. I quite enjoy the ‘risk’ on VLE and so on miniatures for the Flintloque range such as those you have made in Freddie and the Gingerbread crew; it is all part of the fun. This combined with the SHM range makes me likely to be the most approachable creator in the industry for unknown designers and ideas. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.
No one can say that Flintloque figures are ‘beautiful’ but they are ascetically appealing to a cross section of the wargaming community who continue to love the range and its miniatures; now for more than fifteen years.
I have seen a number of emails from wargamers new to Flintloque who have been upset that they cannot gain a limited miniature that is sold out. But as I always say, you do not ‘need’ any of them to play and the vast majority are additional characters for adventures or fun pieces. But the love that players have for their collection of LE’s far, and I mean far, outweighs these grumbles. Plus most who have looked hard have managed to find their missing LE’s in trade or second hand which is all part of the fun and what led to me making ‘The Rarest Tin’ book for those collectors back in 2009.
As for kickstarting here on this posting, we will see in September.
GBS
Hello, just seen this on a trawl around the web, Id just like to answer some of the questions posed. First of all, I see this all as just a kind of experiment, sure I’d love to achieve what I have set out to do, but I am still doubtful that I can get funded through this platform. Its my first attempt to use anything like this, so its kind of muddle through and make do Im afraid. I will however try to persist with getting them made. I do have everything in place, providing I get the cash together, it will happen. Whether its with this crowdfunding platform is debateable, like I said, Im kind of winging it as I go along. As far as my track record in making minis, alas, I do not have one, but will do if I can aquire funds. This probably will be done from other stuff, maybe another more flexible campaign, what exactly I can’t say, but hopefully given the amount of time and effort I intend to put in over time, I will no doubt get something sorted (either that or it will adapt, time will tell)
I never started this out as a sure fire way of “yeah im gonna start a miniature company and make loads of money etc” or whatever, I just was interested in the whole process of taking a line of minis from idea to production. as you can tell, the whole oggam thing is intended to be tongue in cheek, as I am as critical as the next about if its going to work. Also, I get the thing about not seeing the sculpts, I too would love to see em, but without the cash to pay my sculptor, hes not going to start work on them until I give him the say so, I dont want to mess him about not being able to pay him until I know for sure I can, so its a bit like a double edged knife. My sculpting skills will not allow me to miniaturise my ideas, so had to call upon the services of a talented sculptor (that does remind me, he promised to do me a littel work bio to put up on site, I’ll get him to do that in the next few days) The reason why I called it grinning skull is that I reckoned, if it did work it sounded cool, if not it would be a great way to promote myself with any future stuff I do, after all I try and get as much variety in what I do. What ever happens suits me fine. As far as the concepts and background stuff, I’m trying to sort out that problem, like I said winging it, so there’s a steep learning curve, but there will be more stuff coming soon.
I do think that there probably is way of this kind of funding doing some good things for the whole wannabe wargames producer etc, but with it being a relatively new concept, it’ll take a bit of time to get people used to it properly.
Anyway, thanks for the constructive critisism, will take it all onboard, it is nice to know that what I’m doing is creating interest all over (Although yes, some cash would be nice, anyone got a few quid to lend me!!)
Grim
Hello Grim,
Thanks for your input into this discussion. I am glad you have gained from all this chat from those of us with more experience in the industry and with design. We are all watching your campaign with interest.
As I have said in this thread there is a thrill to designing miniatures, getting them released, seeing what wargamers think of them. It is a lot of work though as you are finding out now.
I do intend to make a posting at the end of your investment period. So I look forward to seeing the end result.
GBS
It is interesting, some companies have done quite well. Mantic Games have smashed it using Kickstarter, as have some of the other large gaming companies. But then, this one, http://www.indiegogo.com/drakskullsmenace, which I have pledged money to is going quite steadily. They are a small company, but aiming for a particularly popular market! I just wanted a T-SHirt!!!!
Hello Rob,
Thanks for your comment. Coming in on the other side of this from the point of view of established or driven brands that are trying this approach.
I would have thought that an Alternative Armies t-shirt would be all you would ever need! 🙂
GBS
As long as I could wear it, not make bedding from it!!! 🙂
Heya Gavin,
I think crowd funding is here to stay. I like the idea and the way it works. It’s Dragon’s Den (or as we used to call it, putting forward a business plan looking for investors). The one project you’ve highlighted is a very badly written, poorly thought out business plan that is, for the most part, waffle. If they took that concept as it stands to any investor, be it a bank or individuals, it’s going to fail.
There are many many successful miniature projects on Kickstarter/IndieGoGo:
Sedition Wars: Battle for Alabaster – http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/sedition-wars-battle-for-alabaster
Bushido – http://www.indiegogo.com/bushido
Both have done very well. And even though they had established product lines they also had very well crafted business plan that was laid out well on the project pages.
It’s not just the big boys either (the Bushido crowd are a very small outfit of nice gents that had a great idea and ran with it and are in no way traditional miniature ‘big boys’), there’s a few lovely small ones out there, some of which are being successfully funded:
Infamy Miniatures John Watson – http://www.indiegogo.com/infamy-watson
Pirate Goblins – http://www.indiegogo.com/pirate-goblins
Weird West Miniatures – http://www.indiegogo.com/Weird-West-Miniatures
And there’s loads more out there too, easily found with a bit of digging.
Kickstarter/IndieGoGo does work for miniatures but you need more than some slightly duff concept images and a bad project page layout (Grinning Skulls font is awful). Like business plans of old, you need a good concept you’ve already researched and invested in and when you believe it’s good enough to show to the public that is when you take it to the bank manager, Dragon’s Den, or now, crowd-funding website. They will in turn let you know if it’s viable as a business. Many people, having seen the success of some projects, are jumping on the band wagon but they have missed the core idea that you need to have invested a lot of time, money and thought before you get to the funding stage.
Craig
Hello Craig,
Lots of information there, thanks. Very interesting.
GBS
Gavin,
It seems pretty clear that crowdfunding seems to work best for projects that have completed the prototype stage and now need funding to go into production. I have considered trying to use this for my own miniatures ventures but paused on that plan as I found myself with nothing but concept art at the time.
Where I think this sort of project might work is for established lines to branch out in ways that they either have some hesitation on or cannot fund on their own. They would be able to bank on their previous works and reputation to instill confidence and interest the project. Even without greens to show as prototypes, they would have their past body of work and concept art to promote the product.
The other issue seems to be coming up with a reasonable set of spiffs for the various levels of contribution. RPGs have had an easy time of this as it is simple enough to give somebody creative input into your product for the sake of ego and bragging rights. Miniatures, however, are all about physical product and miniatures gamers are less likely to get excited about being able to name a race of beings than an RPG gamer. so it comes down to giving away more of the product you are trying to promote OR offering discounts on initial releases, etc..
-Eli
Thanks for your input Eli,
Interesting ideas and a new one in comparing Wargaming to RPG. The creation of a physical object does take more cost in some ways compared to an intellect only product in the form of writing. Time, Skills and Effort.
GBS